Jacqui Williams:
New York City is about real estate. To me, this is the baseball game and without real estate working the way it needs to work.and wants to work. Nobody else will work.
New Speaker:
Hey BK, with Ofer Cohen
Ofer Cohen:
Why are you lobbyist?
Jacqui Williams:
Because nobody else is doing anything
Ofer Cohen:
That's Jacqui Williams, advocate and real estate lobbyist. In the last two decades, Jacqui has been behind the scenes with some of Brooklyn's biggest real estate projects.
Jacqui Williams:
You know, I used to be the director of economic development for the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce and helped create it and/or expounded on their programming. The lobbyists for that, for the chamber recruited me. I didn't know what it was and with you approach me and I was like, Oh, you want me to do is take this information, go tell these people why they should be doing it and ask them for money. Sound like a plan for me. Yeah, that makes sense.
Ofer Cohen:
So you fell into it?
Jacqui Williams:
I fell into it and then I learned how I can use it as a tool to affect things that I care about, but also happen to get paid from it.
Ofer Cohen:
You found yourself in a situation where you realized you, you suddenly have the power?
Jacqui Williams:
Right. Especially because there are about 12,000 registered lobbyists in the state of New York, of the 12,000 registered lobbyists, the're only 17 of color of the 17 of color, they're only seven of us that own and this phenomenon of people of color being included. I was the first that started lobbying on business matters when I got recruited to be a lobbyist and that was 2003.
Ofer Cohen:
Let's backtrack a second. Where did you grow up?
Jacqui Williams:
Chicago
Ofer Cohen:
And how did you find yourself in New York?
Speaker 2:
After I got out of the military I was in the navy.
Ofer Cohen:
How did you find yourself in the navy?
Jacqui Williams:
Being resentful towards my mother. She wanted me to go to Tulane and at the party for me graduating high school. My mom was getting ready to announce college and I was like, hold up now. Uncle Sam will be here in the morning at 4:30 to pick me up. I'm leaving, I'm going to the navy.
Ofer Cohen:
And so are you happy about that choice?
Jacqui Williams:
Yeah it's probably one of the best things I ever did. It gave me structure, it taught me discipline. It also prepared me for how I will be treated in the regular world. I was one of 76 women in the entire navy. That's like pretty much the rest of the world once you get out of it in the private sector. When I got out, I went home to Chicago. My mom and I still did not see eye to eye. I um, started working in construction because I operated cranes in the military and mu mom and I didn't get along and I decided I was going to come to New York and visit my aunt Sarah. She lived in the housing developments. And you know, Chicago is very segregated.
Ofer Cohen:
Right
Jacqui Williams:
So I had never seen, and I'm an adult after serving my country had never seen black people, Hispanic people live on the same floor, let alone in the same building. New York blew my mind.
Ofer Cohen:
But it still felt like significantly less segregated then where you grew up?
Jacqui Williams:
I thought when I first got here, I had never seen Hassidic Jews before. I didn't even know what that was.
Ofer Cohen:
Right, when you are saying it blew your mind, what did you feel?
Jacqui Williams:
It scared me to death. I had never seen black people that spoke with accents of other than Africans. So to me, Trinidadians, Jamaica's. I've never had been exposed to that. This is not the norm. This is the petri dish for the world.
Ofer Cohen:
So initially you're intimidated by that?
Jacqui Williams:
Very much. So I stayed with my aunt at Marlboro Houses in Coney Island. She put me out and I went to the homeless shelter after my mfirst month here. And I went to the homeless shelter on Twenty Third Street in Manhattan, they stole all of my papers. They beat me up. I was sexually assaulted really bad. I left and walked from 23rd street in Manhattan until I saw Black people. And unbeknownst to me that was Harlem so I walked to 119. It was because I was in the military. My state of mind is I'm going to be all right. It's going to work itself out. Well. I ended up finding a spot on the ground on 119th, between fifth and Lenox, between two tenement buildings choosing and had cardboard boxes and milk crates.
Ofer Cohen:
That sounds like a pretty low point in your life.
Jacqui Williams:
It was a very low point and, coming from somewhere that would be viewed as somewhat middle class. I used to walk the welfare every day I get out there, I will go fill out all the paperwork, sign up for a jobs program. Do my resume, the whole nine yards. I'm pretty skilled. I couldn't get a job. Went back to welfare and was this lady named Ms. Jones. She did like the intake and at the cme. Well about a week or two she would give me fruit because my savings was gone. One day I was regurgitating and she was like, what's wrong with you. Find out from the sexual assault. I ended up getting pregnant. So with that being said,she broke a few of her work rules and let me stay at her home, her best friend lived up in the hallway and she worked for the State University of New York Educational Opportunity Program. They connected me with a place called Inwood house in Manhattan. Which was a program for teens and I chose adoption so I was able to give the child up for adoption. Because I wasn't able to take care of a child and put roof over my head and after I dealt with that. I was able to get into the State University of New York at Farmingdale. Because that was the only place where they had dorms for people over 21. So they got me and air go. I started turning into an advocate when I first got there at the school, Governor Cuomo, the father was trying to put guns on campus and I organize the students, Cause I'm like why does the campus police need guns for? What is that about? And most of the students that lived in the dorm just happened to be black and brown from the five boroughs.
Ofer Cohen:
And how do you find yourself through this path, sort of in the midst of, you know, lobbying for real estate interests and organizations both private and public.
Jacqui Williams:
It's interesting because, to go from living on the street after serving my country to representing the interests of some of the most powerful people in not only New York but in the world, I better than anybody else can advise them on their behavior in which to accomplish the things they want to get done and what they should not be doing as a person that has been impacted by it . And they can either choose to take my advice or not. And I'm very candid as you can see. I think that works for me.
Ofer Cohen:
So when do they come to you? Those very, very powerful people.
Jacqui Williams:
When they need to either get a rezoning, meaning go through a city system where I call it a nine month birthday process. It takes three trimesters to bring a child into the world. It's a minimum once you turn your application in for rezoning it's going to take us three trimesters for the baby to be born i.e the building,
Ofer Cohen:
So you've been hired by real estate developers to help so convince the community or the councilman?
Jacqui Williams:
The community, the council, the administration, city planning, every level that you need in order to go through a process of rezoning I have been before it or advise the client and it's colleagues or investors what you need to do and how you should do it and who we should go get to support it. Why it would be in their interest to support it. And I've been on the other side where I've been hired to stop people from building things,
Ofer Cohen:
It sounds to me like given the background that you have to believe, I mean yes, you have to make a living, but you have to believe in the cause or the project or the change that you're trying to help.
Jacqui Williams:
Right. And I don't represent anything that I don't believe in.
Ofer Cohen:
So how do you feel about, just in general, the the power of lobbyists in the real estate industry in New York? I mean if it's over $100,000,000 reportedly spent on real estate lobbying
Jacqui Williams:
New York City is about real estate. To me this is the baseball game here and without real estate working the way it needs to work and wants to work, nobody else will work. Some of these real estate organization's been around since the 1800s. My people were slaves when they started organizations about real estate. Real estate is not to be toyed with here. It needs to be lobbied, It has to. And just like you have people for real estate transactions that lobby that people will be against it, you know, a lot of them that are, I find them to be selfish. You know, all of a sudden you hear and you don't want somebody to build x, y, and z, why?
Ofer Cohen:
You essentially see your work. Even when he worked for the real estate interest, you see your work as working for the people.
Jacqui Williams:
I do both. I help my client get what they need. And want for their industry and in those elements that I can extract for people who need tools and resources and access to things, I'm going to extract that. It takes a long time to convince nine people of color that is okay to be user friendly and, create pathways to success for other people.
Ofer Cohen:
You just walked us through sort of the lowest point. I mean, I can't imagine. I mean the lowest point in anyone's life. Walk me through some of the highest points in your career in contrast to that feel really, really proud.
Jacqui Williams:
Well, I became proud when I first started working for [...]. How many black people can say that I never met one of those before, communities of color they are like, what do you mean a pharmacist? How I explained it to a lot of people who don't have access to that information. I'm a drug dealer and my drug of choice is information and power. And that's what I'm selling. And I give advice and I teach them how to use the drug and I stand on a corner in the lobby, in government. That's what I do, and on the behalf of the people I represented.
Ofer Cohen:
Was there one project or one assignment that you worked on, when the deal got done and when the project got built you felt like...
Jacqui Williams:
Ikea.
Ofer Cohen:
Ikea, interesting.
Jacqui Williams:
I broke my chops on that. It took us two years to get that done. I pass that every time and I go in there, I'm like these people have no idea.
Ofer Cohen:
I think it is the highest grossing IKEA in the country.
Jacqui Williams:
In addition to it was the first big box in Brooklyn and It cracked open that door.
Ofer Cohen:
Your ability to make sure that the project takes care of the local community in terms of providing jobs was..
Jacqui Williams:
I didn't know if it was real. Are they telling me the truth? I know the structures they're allowing me to put in place. Yes. Jackie was gonna do it. I know what I'm reading on paper, but to see it become real. It's unbelievable.
Ofer Cohen:
How many jobs are there?
Jacqui Williams:
Like 300 or so, full time, you know, I don't even remember the numbers because Ikea has been open over 10 years. It takes at least three that go through the process. But then that's where I got to learn how the system works. It wasn't just about getting new rezoning, it was about the teams of professionals that exist in the city that do shuttle diplomacy to get projects done. Then I got to learn the system.
Ofer Cohen:
It's still is a very meaningful project in Brooklyn.
Jacqui Williams:
Yes it is. I'm very blessed to be able to have the opportunity to even be exposed. I live in one of the, from going from on the street and now I live in Dumbo and my business is in Dumbo. Who does that? I'm glad to start the block association. The crazy Black girl that used to be homeless on the street.
Ofer Cohen:
And Dumbo is Is the only the most expensive neighborhood in Brooklyn right now.
Jacqui Williams:
That's what they say. And with that being said, you know, I experience the Trumpish behavior, from everyday white people.
Ofer Cohen:
Every business meeting, I'm sure you're not only the only woman, but definitely the only woman of color.
Jacqui Williams:
Right. I'll go to the events it's like me, a half a bag of pepper and a whole ton of salt. I used to do no press or radio or podcasts, nothing. And I decided in 2018 there was time for me to have a discussion about it and I'll start sharing about what my experiences have been and my thought process. I'm pretty bright. I can look around the city, see where my advice and counsel has create a lot of opportunity. It made a lot of people, a lot of money
Ofer Cohen:
You were behind the scenes a lot.
Jacqui Williams:
Right
Ofer Cohen:
Now you feel like you want to be a little more upfront.
Jacqui Williams:
Well, they need to know that there's this wonderful veteran. That happens to be a woman that happens to be black that's behind the scenes helping make some of these great things.
Ofer Cohen:
I agree
Jacqui Williams:
You know, shame on me for being afraid and then I ran into you.
Jacqui Williams:
Amazing. Well thank you so much Jacqui.
Jacqui Williams:
Thank you.
Ofer Cohen:
Really appreciate it. I'm Ofer Cohen. This is Hey BK the podcast about the people behind the Brooklyn transformation. You can rate and subscribe to all of our episodes wherever you get your podcast. Thanks for listening.