Narrator:
Hey Bk with Ofer Cohen.
AJ Pires:
People are starting to abandon Manhattan in its entirety and live entirely in Brooklyn.
Ofer Cohen:
AJ Pires and Jared Della Valle traveled to the HeyBK studio from DUMBO, their home base since they started back in 2006. Welcome to HeyBK AJ and Jared principles of Alloy development. I had a horrible commute this morning to Prospect Heights. You know, tell us about a little bit.
Jared Della Valle:
Getting here? I had to sit next to AJ in the car. I was looking for a different experience rather than sitting across the table from him at work.
Ofer Cohen:
AJ and Jared finish each other's sentences and are clearly in sync. As you'll hear. And the partners of cofounders of Aloe and have a unique approach. AJ and Jared, have taken on Brooklyn and made their mark throughout with a responsible and thoughtful projects.
AJ Pires:
We got to the same place in a little bit different paths. And I went to architecture school to make buildings because I thought that's where you go to learn how to make buildings. And I got disillusioned pretty quickly from the way that that field talks about their successes, which is often about, you know, I achieve this from the client or I was able to manipulate this and get this design done. And it was all about kind of leveraging design in a service model to get things done. And it just seemed very obvious like, oh I don't, I don't want to be in the service profession. I want to be over there making decisions. I want to do this work. Like I want to tackle the problems and do the design work. But like can't you do both? And through a mutual friend, through sheer luck we were introduced and Jared was, you know, I think that's a thing architect develop where like we can, that's a thing. I was like, yeah, that's a thing I've been studying. I think you know, let's do that thing.
Ofer Cohen:
So together they decided to do their thing, blending real estate and architecture. They formed an open office with a collaborative approach that considers both the design and overall impact on the city.
AJ Pires:
I think there's a kind of a simple exercise, at least that I do in my own head, which is, okay hey, there's the opportunity, there's this site, there's going to be 13,000 decisions that need to be made to get to the end at the end end end. Really at the end, two years after everything is done. When somebody describes the three sentences of what the project is and you stand across the street and point added what did it achieve, right? What, what is the opportunity and the best simplest of ways. And I think the impact is increasingly becoming one of the key criteria and value sense that the architecture up at the beauty of it is also for me continuing to be kind of one of the foundational principles of our site selection and project selection, which is can we make something beautiful in the built environment? I don't know what you think. Yeah.
Jared Della Valle:
I mean we're distorting the use of the word value in our practice. I think coming from architectural lense economics has never driven that industry. And, you know, we are thinking about all of the alternative value sets and how to leverage our capacity with real estate to create alternative values like community connection or political, you know, opportunities or the community benefits in general. Right. And, yeah, I think our projects need to be financeable, but at the same time, we’re adding in this additional layer of criteria about alternative values. That's super important to us.
Ofer Cohen:
Well, they only take on a few projects at a time. The bulk of their focus has been in Dumbo and they both live in buildings that they designed and developed.
AJ Pires:
No, I think just knowing that, knowing the place right in the ins and outs and who the people in your neighborhood are and what's happening on this corner and that corner. It's just, you know, we have a lot of comfort in the risk because we feel like, okay, I really, I understand this place.
Ofer Cohen:
I understand that dumbo became more and more lucrative as an investment or capital destination. But you know, do you still love Dumbo as much as you love that? And the grittier, you know, it was a little more intimate.
Jared Della Valle:
They were literally wild dogs there when I moved into the neighborhood and my family moved there in 2001, 2002 and in a little bit post-September 11th, they moved from Chelsea and their most beautiful times and the neighborhood were like this time: of the year of February. They would not be a single car parked on the street. It'd be snow on the ground. And it was just like otherworldly. And I miss those moments of solitude, in the neighborhood, but it was also completely starved. And with my family and committing to a place and the resources, you know, David and Jed have done an amazing job kind of curating the neighborhood and we love being neighbors with them and participating and engaging and a thoughtful future that we don't collaborate. I think we share a value set about what it is and Regina and her work at the park, which is really kind of created a new neighborhood. So I feel ownership of the place candidly after this many years. And I think my wife and kids similarly are proud to have been part of the history, of that place. And, I love it and I can never foresee moving. From there it's home.
AJ Pires:
I was in Fort Greene for seven or eight years before I moved to Dumbo and you know, my wife and I started our family in Fort Greene and we did the strollers through the brownstone neighborhoods and go into the playgrounds. And, and that was difficult to leave as DUMBO’ a different neighborhood. It's more mixed-use. There's more office space, and, it's busier and there's more going on. There's tourism and certainly, with the park opened, it can be weekends there where it's really crowded. , but it's also more exciting. And it's funny, as my kids get older, it's a little bit more aligned, right? Cause there's, there's more stuff going on, right. And so like, everything, it changes. I'm sure five years from now it'll be even different than there'll be other things we couldn't even imagine. And the neighborhood and, you know, it's a physical form. The fact that it's constrained by the river and the infrastructure of the bridges will forever be there. And that is really one of the kind of remarkable and memorable moments of living in the neighborhood. And so, I think that's sustainable.
Ofer Cohen:
Their first big development was a loft conversion on water street, but ha and Jared expand beyond Dumbo. They remain focused on what they describe is northwest, Brooklyn.
Jared Della Valle:
We have this quality of life thing, right? Written in 2008, 2009 or like just being a developer in New York attack, started to expand and to also be in the real estate broker and also having a construction company. And so the immediacy of the projects to our office became incredibly valuable to the culture and success of execution, which is we'll go to the job site twice a day, three times a day between everybody in our office, maybe five times a day. And we're looking to make sure that we can execute quickly and really understand everything. And, that market intimacy is hard to get a feel for and other places. And so, you know, sometimes we even joke about it, it's like this is a great site and we'll be in Long Island City or something like that. And it's like, this is an amazing site. But man, that's gonna take like two and a half hours out of our day to come here. I don't, I don't want to do that. And there's a degree of selfishness with that.
AJ Pires:
There's also though, we've always been very aligned and I think everybody in the office is about what we're doing and what the legacy is, which is, you know, I always use the anecdote, like I kind of, you know, 15, 20 years from now, I want to walk around and with, my mom or my daughter and pointed the 12 buildings we've done and be proud about each one. It's not about how much a dollar is we're making or ego in that way, right? It's about the legacy of the thing and the built environment and the impact that thing had at the people who live with it and use it and encounter it and all of that. And so that does require the discipline of saying, no, whatever that quote is, right. The success is defined by what you say no to is, is absolutely true for the model. And it is sometimes it's, you know, I'm not going to say I don't second guess things where it's like, God, we could have done that and then we would have done this
Ofer Cohen:
Would you say that you have more moments of regretting not seizing an opportunity versus, you know?
Jared Della Valle:
Oh, those are so rare. I mean, we're hardly reflective. I mean, everything is perspective. There's only maybe been one or two deals in our history where we're like, shit, that was stupid were you lost for $50,000 and you know, a week on closing timing where it was like, right. You know, why didn't we do that? But when you look back at the time, there was a reason it was a reason, you know? And, yeah, we're so careful about it, but it's not how I spend our time. I'm so proud of our work.
Ofer Cohen:
I get what you big picture are proud of, but to the point about walking around Brooklyn and being proud of specific projects so far, what would be the thing?
Jared Della Valle:
I love them all. No, I have to say I think, One John Street is recognizable and part of the Brooklyn Skyline and the amount of, personal recognition and connection to our company has been kind of overwhelming you know, I hear it every day. I ride over the bridge and blah, blah, blah, and I saw your building. It's the best building in Brooklyn. And you know, we get a lot of that from our architecture peer set, which is validating because it was really uncomfortable moment when I was stopping producing and it worked for others where I had to actually say I quit architecture. Right. And we’re like, oh, so you don't care and you know what's happening and how is that going to go? Why'd you quit architecture and why are you being a mean developer? And, and so, you know, our participation in the architectural community has been kind of important. One of the most rewarding moments of our career. We had at recent landmarks hearing where we were: presenting 168 Plymouth and the interim commissioner said, I don't think there's another owner or architect in the city who's had more of a positive impact on a neighborhood. Then you guys. And it was, it was awesome. It was an incredible moment.
AJ Pires:
I started crying, just started crying.
Jared Della Valle:
It was really a moment of recognition of feeling like the imprint and the subtlety and the small choices we're making and the execution and certainty if that outcome is, recognizable as a place. And so for us, we walked out of that meeting like completely elated
Ofer Cohen:
Recently, they've taken on a bigger challenge, a larger mixed-use project in one of Downtown Brooklyn busiest corridors on Flatbush avenue.
AJ Pires:
Like all things right. It was the part intention and part luck and circumstance. We didn't acquire our first piece of property there with the intention to develop what we're currently developing, and so through. And that was four years ago now, and you know, the opportunity with the RFP that the city led to make public schools and to do just a much more complicated phase mixed-use development was just kind of too good to pass up. Right? It was like what you get. We get to do public infrastructure like schools and you know, there was a big affordable housing upon its cultural component that we added. And it, it was the same, skillset that we applied, which is the project became a lot more complicated, you know, three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle on an irregular site in a mixed context. And it required a lot of, iteration and a lot of design thinking to come up with a plan that, you know, met a lot of criteria and kind of achieved whatever it is looking to achieve.
Jared Della Valle:
The complexity of that site and the political landscape and the sensitivity to the other neighborhoods was, an incredible like complete mind fuck for a long time, you know, and, I think we enjoyed, it was going to say the discussion, it was incredibly rewarding to have the 150 meetings we had. And to think through the problems and to accept the community is our client and to think through what a successful outcome could be. It was, yeah, it's a period of our history as a company that I'm exceptionally proud of.
AJ Pires:
I know our work there is not done and we won't be judged until that project is complete. And we follow through on a lot of the, you know, intent that we've described. Right. And that's, that's always the case with development. You're spending most of the time, whether it's with your internal team or your partners or communities or whatever, talking about something that doesn't exist yet. Right. And when it's done, the work is over to a certain extent and so, it's, you know, it'll be that judgment that will be the most, I think rewarding eight years from now or whenever that's going to be
Ofer Cohen:
AJ and Jared create innovative designs. I went back to that initial question, what are they architects or developers when filling out forms? How do they describe themselves?
Jared Della Valle:
If I'm, if I'm speaking publicly, which happens often, I say I make buildings and people understand that that's the kind of most accurate version of it. If I'm, you know, filling out a form that's like an application for something, it's usually architect first and it's a line of credit. He's back,
AJ Pires:
You know, we don't fit into either of the kind of guilds, right? Right. And we go to the architectural things and although it's less, less happening now because people know us more, but people think we're real estate developer, you guys just want to make money and you ate design and putting, you know, and that, and then we go to the real estate events, right? And it's like you're just a fucking architect and you know, you just want to spend my money and you don't understand anything and you can't do math and
AJ Pires:
I mean, you know, we're spending more time, I think trying to, push on both fronts, which is the architectural practice and needs more advocacy around ways to gain more agency. And how things are made in the city. And you know, it's a tough service profession. It's incredibly difficult and you know, both of us are on boards of organization. What we're trying to push on that front. And similarly, the real estate development community needs a lot of pushing relative to the candidly the ethics of what the responsibilities are of a developer. And you know, I think, that's one of the things that, is important to recognize that, you know, as people recognize bill, no, that's a nice building. How'd you do that? We should be trying to do our part to articulate that there are alternative paths. Right. And to set an example,
Ofer Cohen:
It's kind of like a, a combined DNA in a way. It's not like two different things that you're trying to meld together.
AJ Pires:
There are, you know, it's funny, one of the things that does definitely happen in the past 10 years as we've noticed that there are more real estate development companies that have architectural practices in house, right? But that is still church and state and they're just, they have a division that's in house and do the kind of the earliest point like it's, it is one conversation that is happening simultaneously around what does the value of that and can we build it and will people, is that legible to a broader market and what's the impact where I like it that all of that stuff on the table at the same time is how we work and that's I think possible for other people to get there through just accepting the criteria,
Ofer Cohen:
The connection to Brooklyn I'm in, can you see yourself doing this any out of town? In the world, in America?
Jared Della Valle:
Not at all. Nope. Why? We see a million opportunities and people that are always asking, you know, would you develop here and would you develop there? And our business, again, it's about taking a risk and it's like the intimacy and connection to place and the nuance about knowing that I'm this corner, this is happening in six months that's completely devoid and not having a connection to the process of the making is also an,
Aj Pires:
It's also, it's where, where I am and where you are, which is our kids are going to school here and this is where we live. And so I want to invest capital, right? My, not my dollars but like my industry capital and effecting the place in which I live, right? Like it's to do it in suburban Cleveland, you know, I have no attachment is, you know, what's the meaning?
Jared Della Valle:
But it's also the excitement and the value proposition of, you know, the culture of this place, right? Like there is a collective spirit here and you know, I share the value set. We can have disagreements about urban issues, but, the value set about urban issues.
Ofer Cohen:
What urban issues?
Jared Della Valle:
If we can believe in a different future. Right? And it's a part of that spirit of place that I've really come to enjoy and appreciate and culture. I like participating in and, and, yeah, I don't have that connection to any other place.
Ofer Cohen:
The one thing you would change about the city?
Jared Della Valle:
I think, some of the social equity issues that come up as, as they relate to housing, is an extraordinary challenge if people need to deal with more head-on. And I think that's hard for our industry to do. You know, we're both developers and perceived as rich white guys. Right? And so the challenge of really connecting and being genuine about making meaningful change and you know, how to participate in creating social equity, opportunities is the thing I'd like to do most. And I don't know that everybody shares that value set all of the time.so that's more of a cultural shift. And I think, you know, I think, it's obviously more present today, but I still don't know how many people take it on as a meaningful issue to address. That's a hope for the future. Call it.
AJ Pires:
I think the thing that I'm excited about, which I think is already happening, cause I certainly see it amongst the people that I encounter is, people are starting to abandon Manhattan in its entirety and live entirely in Brooklyn and they go to Manhattan to completely just do a pit stop at a cultural moment or, right, It's not part of their life at all. And you know, they're raising their family here, their kids are going to school here. They eat out here, they work here. They, it's just, and more and more I encounter right people where they're like, yeah, I know. I never go to Manhattan, I don't know the last time I went there. Right. And the more that happens, I think the more, not like there's not enough pride now in Brooklyn, but the more it just kind of starts to create its own real power of momentum, and that's what you're seeing and you know, big companies choosing to like move their entire offices to Brooklyn. Right? And we've had people who show up that are new to New York City as a whole, five Boroughs who are shopping for homes and they're like, I'm just looking in Brooklyn. I'm actually not looking at Manhattan and all, I'm just looking here. Right. And that's kind of amazing. Right. And I think, you know, 5years, 10 years, 20 years, right. It's going to be, it's not just that the center of gravity is shifting. It will be its own center of gravity, you know?
Ofer Cohen:
So we typically, and if you listened to some of these shows, we typically handle this like awkward question.
AJ Pires:
Well, I think it's been weird that we're in our underwear this whole time. At least strange.
Ofer Cohen:
I know. I typically ask, can you tell us something that nobody else knows about you? But I can ask it separately. I can ask you together.
Jared Della Valle:
I've been asking AJ this question for the last 13 years. Never told me anything new. We were, we were trying to think of what to say to the answer of that question way over here. And it's like, no, I'm tired of you. I know everything there is to know, I think people are always expecting us to sort of a show some side of being just pure capitalist or something at the end of the day. Right. But you know, this shit is real to enjoy. Yeah. I think we both really care about what it is that we're doing and kind of, I don't know how to answer it any other way is, the question is there are no secrets. There is nothing that nobody doesn't know and we're prepared to share just about anything.
AJ Pires:
I play guitar, which I have a played since it was a little kid. , and I only play for myself. I like, nobody ever hears me play guitar. Seriously. It's like my one piece of zen therapy, like whatever, you know, just like picking out songs consistently for like 25 years .
Ofer Cohen:
Wow. You're so lucky. I was trying to get back into playing guitars I play when I was a teenager, but I haven't been able, this was last year. I haven't been able to really get back into it.
AJ Pires:
I would play with it, but I don't, I don't play with anybody. When, when do you have talked to play? Somebody was in early in the morning and sometimes you know, and at the end of the day, you're so lucky. Yeah. That's amazing.
Ofer Cohen:
You're so lucky. Yeah. That's amazing. See, AJ actually had an answer for us.
Jared Della Valle:
I knew that already,
Ofer Cohen:
Oh, you knew that? Yeah, no, I get it.
Narrator:
Hey Bk with Ofer Cohen.
AJ Pires:
People are starting to abandon Manhattan in its entirety and live entirely in Brooklyn.
Ofer Cohen:
AJ Pires and Jared Della Valle traveled to the HeyBK studio from DUMBO, their home base since they started back in 2006. Welcome to HeyBK AJ and Jared principles of Alloy development. I had a horrible commute this morning to Prospect Heights. You know, tell us about a little bit.
Jared Della Valle:
Getting here? I had to sit next to AJ in the car. I was looking for a different experience rather than sitting across the table from him at work.
Ofer Cohen:
AJ and Jared finish each other's sentences and are clearly in sync. As you'll hear. And the partners of cofounders of Aloe and have a unique approach. AJ and Jared, have taken on Brooklyn and made their mark throughout with a responsible and thoughtful projects.
AJ Pires:
We got to the same place in a little bit different paths. And I went to architecture school to make buildings because I thought that's where you go to learn how to make buildings. And I got disillusioned pretty quickly from the way that that field talks about their successes, which is often about, you know, I achieve this from the client or I was able to manipulate this and get this design done. And it was all about kind of leveraging design in a service model to get things done. And it just seemed very obvious like, oh I don't, I don't want to be in the service profession. I want to be over there making decisions. I want to do this work. Like I want to tackle the problems and do the design work. But like can't you do both? And through a mutual friend, through sheer luck we were introduced and Jared was, you know, I think that's a thing architect develop where like we can, that's a thing. I was like, yeah, that's a thing I've been studying. I think you know, let's do that thing.
Ofer Cohen:
So together they decided to do their thing, blending real estate and architecture. They formed an open office with a collaborative approach that considers both the design and overall impact on the city.
AJ Pires:
I think there's a kind of a simple exercise, at least that I do in my own head, which is, okay hey, there's the opportunity, there's this site, there's going to be 13,000 decisions that need to be made to get to the end at the end end end. Really at the end, two years after everything is done. When somebody describes the three sentences of what the project is and you stand across the street and point added what did it achieve, right? What, what is the opportunity and the best simplest of ways. And I think the impact is increasingly becoming one of the key criteria and value sense that the architecture up at the beauty of it is also for me continuing to be kind of one of the foundational principles of our site selection and project selection, which is can we make something beautiful in the built environment? I don't know what you think. Yeah.
Jared Della Valle:
I mean we're distorting the use of the word value in our practice. I think coming from architectural lense economics has never driven that industry. And, you know, we are thinking about all of the alternative value sets and how to leverage our capacity with real estate to create alternative values like community connection or political, you know, opportunities or the community benefits in general. Right. And, yeah, I think our projects need to be financeable, but at the same time, we’re adding in this additional layer of criteria about alternative values. That's super important to us.
Ofer Cohen:
Well, they only take on a few projects at a time. The bulk of their focus has been in Dumbo and they both live in buildings that they designed and developed.
AJ Pires:
No, I think just knowing that, knowing the place right in the ins and outs and who the people in your neighborhood are and what's happening on this corner and that corner. It's just, you know, we have a lot of comfort in the risk because we feel like, okay, I really, I understand this place.
Ofer Cohen:
I understand that dumbo became more and more lucrative as an investment or capital destination. But you know, do you still love Dumbo as much as you love that? And the grittier, you know, it was a little more intimate.
Jared Della Valle:
They were literally wild dogs there when I moved into the neighborhood and my family moved there in 2001, 2002 and in a little bit post-September 11th, they moved from Chelsea and their most beautiful times and the neighborhood were like this time: of the year of February. They would not be a single car parked on the street. It'd be snow on the ground. And it was just like otherworldly. And I miss those moments of solitude, in the neighborhood, but it was also completely starved. And with my family and committing to a place and the resources, you know, David and Jed have done an amazing job kind of curating the neighborhood and we love being neighbors with them and participating and engaging and a thoughtful future that we don't collaborate. I think we share a value set about what it is and Regina and her work at the park, which is really kind of created a new neighborhood. So I feel ownership of the place candidly after this many years. And I think my wife and kids similarly are proud to have been part of the history, of that place. And, I love it and I can never foresee moving. from there it's home.
AJ Pires:
I was in Fort Greene for seven or eight years before I moved to Dumbo and you know, my wife and I started our family in Fort Greene and we did the strollers through the brownstone neighborhoods and go into the playgrounds. And, and that was difficult to leave as DUMBO’ a different neighborhood. It's more mixed-use. There's more office space, and, it's busier and there's more going on. There's tourism and certainly, with the park opened, it can be weekends there where it's really crowded. , but it's also more exciting. And it's funny, as my kids get older, it's a little bit more aligned, right? Cause there's, there's more stuff going on, right. And so like, everything, it changes. I'm sure five years from now it'll be even different than there'll be other things we couldn't even imagine. And the neighborhood and, you know, it's a physical form. The fact that it's constrained by the river and the infrastructure of the bridges will forever be there. And that is really one of the kind of remarkable and memorable moments of living in the neighborhood. And so, I think that's sustainable.
Ofer Cohen:
Their first big development was a loft conversion on water street, but ha and Jared expand beyond Dumbo. They remain focused on what they describe is northwest, Brooklyn.
Jared Della Valle:
We have this quality of life thing, right? Written in 2008, 2009 or like just being a developer in New York attack, started to expand and to also be in the real estate broker and also having a construction company. And so the immediacy of the projects to our office became incredibly valuable to the culture and success of execution, which is we'll go to the job site twice a day, three times a day between everybody in our office, maybe five times a day. And we're looking to make sure that we can execute quickly and really understand everything. And, that market intimacy is hard to get a feel for and other places. And so, you know, sometimes we even joke about it, it's like this is a great site and we'll be in Long Island City or something like that. And it's like, this is an amazing site. But man, that's gonna take like two and a half hours out of our day to come here. I don't, I don't want to do that. And there's a degree of selfishness with that.
AJ Pires:
There's also though, we've always been very aligned and I think everybody in the office is about what we're doing and what the legacy is, which is, you know, I always use the anecdote, like I kind of, you know, 15, 20 years from now, I want to walk around and with, my mom or my daughter and pointed the 12 buildings we've done and be proud about each one. It's not about how much a dollar is we're making or ego in that way, right? It's about the legacy of the thing and the built environment and the impact that thing had at the people who live with it and use it and encounter it and all of that. And so that does require the discipline of saying, no, whatever that quote is, right. The success is defined by what you say no to is, is absolutely true for the model. And it is sometimes it's, you know, I'm not going to say I don't second guess things where it's like, God, we could have done that and then we would have done this
Ofer Cohen:
Would you say that you have more moments of regretting not seizing an opportunity versus, you know?
Jared Della Valle:
oh, those are so rare. I mean, we're hardly reflective. I mean, everything is perspective. There's only maybe been one or two deals in our history where we're like, shit, that was stupid were you lost for $50,000 and you know, a week on closing timing where it was like, right. You know, why didn't we do that? But when you look back at the time, there was a reason it was a reason, you know? And, yeah, we're so careful about it, but it's not how I spend our time. I'm so proud of our work.
Ofer Cohen:
I, get what you big picture are proud of, but to the point about walking around Brooklyn and being proud of specific projects so far, what would be the thing?
Jared Della Valle:
I love them all. No, I have to say I think, One John Street is recognizable and part of the Brooklyn Skyline and the amount of, personal recognition and connection to our company has been kind of overwhelming you know, I hear it every day. I ride over the bridge and blah, blah, blah, and I saw your building. It's the best building in Brooklyn. And you know, we get a lot of that from our architecture peer set, which is validating because it was really uncomfortable moment when I was stopping producing and it worked for others where I had to actually say I quit architecture. Right. And we’re like, oh, so you don't care and you know what's happening and how is that going to go? Why'd you quit architecture and why are you being a mean developer? And, and so, you know, our participation in the architectural community has been kind of important. One of the most rewarding moments of our career. We had at recent landmarks hearing where we were: presenting 168 Plymouth and the interim commissioner said, I don't think there's another owner or architect in the city who's had more of a positive impact on a neighborhood. Then you guys. And it was, it was awesome. It was an incredible moment.
AJ Pires:
I started crying, just started crying.
Jared Della Valle:
It was really a moment of recognition of feeling like the imprint and the subtlety and the small choices we're making and the execution and certainty if that outcome is, recognizable as a place. And so for us, we walked out of that meeting like completely elated
Ofer Cohen:
Recently. They've taken on a bigger challenge, a larger mixed-use project in one of Downtown Brooklyn busiest corridors on Flatbush avenue.
AJ Pires:
Like all things right. It was the part intention and part luck and circumstance. We didn't acquire our first piece of property there with the intention to develop what we're currently developing, and so through. And that was four years ago now, and you know, the opportunity with the RFP that the city led to make public schools and to do just a much more complicated phase mixed-use development was just kind of too good to pass up. Right? It was like what you get. We get to do public infrastructure like schools and you know, there was a big affordable housing upon its cultural component that we added. And it, it was the same, skillset that we applied, which is the project became a lot more complicated, you know, three-dimensional jigsaw puzzle on an irregular site in a mixed context. And it required a lot of, iteration and a lot of design thinking to come up with a plan that, you know, met a lot of criteria and kind of achieved whatever it is looking to achieve.
Jared Della Valle:
The complexity of that site and the political landscape and the sensitivity to the other neighborhoods was, an incredible like complete mind fuck for a long time, you know, and, I think we enjoyed, it was going to say the discussion, it was incredibly rewarding to have the 150 meetings we had. And to think through the problems and to accept the community is our client and to think through what a successful outcome could be. It was, yeah, it's a period of our history as a company that I'm exceptionally proud of.
AJ Pires:
I know our work there is not done and we won't be judged until that project is complete. And we follow through on a lot of the, you know, intent that we've described. Right. And that's, that's always the case with development. You're spending most of the time, whether it's with your internal team or your partners or communities or whatever, talking about something that doesn't exist yet. Right. And when it's done, the work is over to a certain extent and so, it's, you know, it'll be that judgment that will be the most, I think rewarding eight years from now or whenever that's going to be
Ofer Cohen:
AJ and Jared create innovative designs. I went back to that initial question, what are they architects or developers when filling out forms? How do they describe themselves?
Jared Della Valle:
If I'm, if I'm speaking publicly, which happens often, I say I make buildings and people understand that that's the kind of most accurate version of it. If I'm, you know, filling out a form that's like an application for something, it's usually architect first and it's a line of credit. He's back,
AJ Pires:
You know, we don't fit into either of the kind of guilds, right? Right. And we go to the architectural things and although it's less, less happening now because people know us more, but people think we're real estate developer, you guys just want to make money and you ate design and putting, you know, and that, and then we go to the real estate events, right? And it's like you're just a fucking architect and you know, you just want to spend my money and you don't understand anything and you can't do math and
AJ Pires:
I mean, you know, we're spending more time, I think trying to, push on both fronts, which is the architectural practice and needs more advocacy around ways to gain more agency. And how things are made in the city. And you know, it's a tough service profession. It's incredibly difficult and you know, both of us are on boards of organization. What we're trying to push on that front. And similarly, the real estate development community needs a lot of pushing relative to the candidly the ethics of what the responsibilities are of a developer. And you know, I think, that's one of the things that, is important to recognize that, you know, as people recognize bill, no, that's a nice building. How'd you do that? We should be trying to do our part to articulate that there are alternative paths. Right. And to set an example,
Ofer Cohen:
It's kind of like a, a combined DNA in a way. It's not like two different things that you're trying to meld together.
AJ Pires:
There are, you know, it's funny, one of the things that does definitely happen in the past 10 years as we've noticed that there are more real estate development companies that have architectural practices in house, right? But that is still church and state and they're just, they have a division that's in house and do the kind of the earliest point like it's, it is one conversation that is happening simultaneously around what does the value of that and can we build it and will people, is that legible to a broader market and what's the impact where I like it that all of that stuff on the table at the same time is how we work and that's I think possible for other people to get there through just accepting the criteria,
Ofer Cohen:
The connection to Brooklyn I'm in, can you see yourself doing this any out of town? In the world, in America?
Jared Della Valle:
Not at all. Nope. Why? We see a million opportunities and people that are always asking, you know, would you develop here and would you develop there? And our business, again, it's about taking a risk and it's like the intimacy and connection to place and the nuance about knowing that I'm this corner, this is happening in six months that's completely devoid and not having a connection to the process of the making is also an,
Aj Pires:
It's also, it's where, where I am and where you are, which is our kids are going to school here and this is where we live. And so I want to invest capital, right? My, not my dollars but like my industry capital and effecting the place in which I live, right? Like it's to do it in suburban Cleveland, you know, I have no attachment is, you know, what's the meaning?
Jared Della Valle:
But it's also the excitement and the value proposition of, you know, the culture of this place, right? Like there is a collective spirit here and you know, I share the value set. We can have disagreements about urban issues, but, the value set about urban issues.
Ofer Cohen:
What urban issues?
Jared Della Valle:
If we can believe in a different future. Right? And it's a part of that spirit of place that I've really come to enjoy and appreciate and culture. I like participating in and, and, yeah, I don't have that connection to any other place.
Ofer Cohen:
The one thing you would change about the city?
Jared Della Valle:
I think, some of the social equity issues that come up as, as they relate to housing, is an extraordinary challenge if people need to deal with more head-on. And I think that's hard for our industry to do. You know, we're both developers and perceived as rich white guys. Right? And so the challenge of really connecting and being genuine about making meaningful change and you know, how to participate in creating social equity, opportunities is the thing I'd like to do most. And I don't know that everybody shares that value set all of the time.so that's more of a cultural shift. And I think, you know, I think, it's obviously more present today, but I still don't know how many people take it on as a meaningful issue to address. That's a hope for the future. Call it.
AJ Pires:
I think the thing that I'm excited about, which I think is already happening, cause I certainly see it amongst the people that I encounter is, people are starting to abandon Manhattan in its entirety and live entirely in Brooklyn and they go to Manhattan to completely just do a pit stop at a cultural moment or, right, It's not part of their life at all. And you know, they're raising their family here, their kids are going to school here. They eat out here, they work here. They, it's just, and more and more I encounter right people where they're like, yeah, I know. I never go to Manhattan, I don't know the last time I went there. Right. And the more that happens, I think the more, not like there's not enough pride now in Brooklyn, but the more it just kind of starts to create its own real power of momentum, and that's what you're seeing and you know, big companies choosing to like move their entire offices to Brooklyn. Right? And we've had people who show up that are new to New York City as a whole, five Boroughs who are shopping for homes and they're like, I'm just looking in Brooklyn. I'm actually not looking at Manhattan and all, I'm just looking here. Right. And that's kind of amazing. Right. And I think, you know, 5years, 10 years, 20 years, right. It's going to be, it's not just that the center of gravity is shifting. It will be its own center of gravity, you know?
Ofer Cohen:
So we typically, and if you listened to some of these shows, we typically handle this like awkward question.
AJ Pires:
Well, I think it's been weird that we're in our underwear this whole time. At least strange.
Ofer Cohen:
I know. I typically ask, can you tell us something that nobody else knows about you? But I can ask it separately. I can ask you together.
Jared Della Valle:
I've been asking AJ this question for the last 13 years. Never told me anything new. We were, we were trying to think of what to say to the answer of that question way over here. And it's like, no, I'm tired of you. I know everything there is to know, I think people are always expecting us to sort of a show some side of being just pure capitalist or something at the end of the day. Right. But you know, this shit is real to enjoy. Yeah. I think we both really care about what it is that we're doing and kind of, I don't know how to answer it any other way is, the question is there are no secrets. There is nothing that nobody doesn't know and we're prepared to share just about anything.
AJ Pires:
I play guitar, which I have a played since it was a little kid. , and I only play for myself. I like, nobody ever hears me play guitar. Seriously. It's like my one piece of zen therapy, like whatever, you know, just like picking out songs consistently for like 25 years .
Ofer Cohen:
Wow. You're so lucky. I was trying to get back into playing guitars I play when I was a teenager, but I haven't been able, this was last year. I haven't been able to really get back into it.
AJ Pires:
I would play with it, but I don't, I don't play with anybody. When, when do you have talked to play? Somebody was in early in the morning and sometimes you know, and at the end of the day, you're so lucky. Yeah. That's amazing.
Ofer Cohen:
You're so lucky. Yeah. That's amazing. See, AJ actually had an answer for us.
Jared Della Valle:
I knew that already,
Ofer Cohen:
Oh, you knew that? Yeah, no, I get it.
Jared Della Valle:
He actually, he says that, but the real story here is that there was a night and he's true and we did. We were out and teaching in Syracuse and we were drunk enough that AJ was out and played live. I was in front of a group of people that we didn't know, so I was not sober. It's true.
Ofer Cohen:
There we go. We found one secret joint secret actually. You were listening to, Hey, BK, the podcast about the people behind Brooklyn's transformation. You can find us at heybk.nyc or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ofer Cohen. Thanks for listening.
Jared Della Valle:
He actually, he says that, but the real story here is that there was a night and he's true and we did. We were out and teaching in Syracuse and we were drunk enough that AJ was out and played live. I was in front of a group of people that we didn't know, so I was not sober. It's true.
Ofer Cohen :
There we go. We found one secret joint secret actually. You were listening to, Hey, BK, the podcast about the people behind Brooklyn's transformation. You can find us at heybk.nyc or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Ofer Cohen. Thanks for listening.