Narrator:
Hey BK with Ofer Cohen.
Carlo Scissura:
I'll give you a hint though. There will not be a highway at the Promenade, which I think if that's all I said, people would be happy and I could go home.
Ofer Cohen:
In this episode, I talked to an old friend, Carlo Scissura, Carlo chairs the mayor's committee in charge of evaluating the plan that speaks to crumbling Brooklyn Queens expressway. Part of the BQE, a highway that connects Brooklyn and Queens with the New York suburbs is on the verge of collapse a plan to divert traffic. During the construction along the scenic Brooklyn Heights Promenade was met with fierce opposition. New Yorkers will be relieved to hear that during our conversation Carlo revealed that the panelist scrap the idea of moving cars to the Promenade. Carlo has been a key player behind the scenes during Brooklyn's redevelopment, and construction boom of the last two decades. For nearly five years, the Brooklyn born attorney made his mark as a chief of staff to the larger than life Brooklyn borough president Marty Markowitz. He since moved on to head the Brooklyn Chamber of Commerce and most recently the New York Building Congress. An organization that promotes the construction industry in New York. For now, Carlos says he has no plans to run for higher office. Carlos Scissura, one of my best friends in Brooklyn. So let's go back to even before Marty.
Carlo Scissura:
I grew up in Bensonhurst, a son of Italian immigrants, a great community to grow up in. I think Bensonhurst will always be the place where immigrants land. At one time they were Jewish at one time, they were Irish at one time they were Italian. Now they are Italian and, Chinese and Russian and you know, a really great mix. So that's Bensonhurst.
Ofer Cohen:
So both of your parents came from Sicily?
Carlo Scissura:
Both came from Sicily in 1967. They were part of this big wave of immigrants from Italy, Southern Italy that came from the late fifties to the early seventies. And I may have told you the story when I was running for school board in 1999, I was at a debate one night. And I told the story of being in kindergarten in PS 112 in Bensonhurst. And having this wonderful, beautiful Italian teacher who would come in my kindergarten class everyday and take a few of us out and we learned to speak Italian and the superintendent called me the next day and said, when do you have a chance Come by and see me? And I went to visit him a couple of days later. He said, your memory is a little off. You actually weren't learning Italian. You were part of New York city's first ESL class. We didn't know what to do with all these new immigrants. And Frank Macchiarola who passed away. He was the chancellor, created an ESL program called a pullout program, which is now a model across America. So me and these other Italian kids who spoke very little English would be pulled out of our kindergarten class, go to another room and be taught English, not Italian.
Ofer Cohen:
So in your home, you only spoke Italian?
Carlo Scissura:
We spoke Italian at home.
Ofer Cohen:
Walk me through it. Very different period in Brooklyn. Very different period in city politics. Very different period. Just in general. Right in the city. Just walk me through one of the craziest stories you can tell me from the Marty days. Just one, just one good one.
Carlo Scissura:
Oh my God. Prospect Park bike lane, which today I think if someone announced we were doing a bike lane today, it probably wouldn't make the cover of any newspaper as, as vehemently as it did back then. But when, mayor Bloomberg and his transportation commissioner announced that they were doing that, it really got people's passions together and Marty was one of the people that was opposed to it. And during that period I was planning Marty state of the borough speech, which was always a big thing in Brooklyn. And he decided with mayor Bloomberg and the audience that he was going to ride a tricycle into the auditorium of Sunset Park high school to show what it means for an older gentleman to get on a bike in Brooklyn, um, was kind of amusing. And uh, mayor Bloomberg had a good laugh, but I mean there are plenty of those stories. Coney Island rezoning, we hope we held a hearing at borough hall during the Coney Island rezoning. And it was interesting. If you know the role of Borough president, you really don't have specific power. You really have a bully pulpit. Obviously Marty used it well and in any rezoning, if the borough president is opposed to it people, you know, the city continues to go along the path. Coney Island was different. They knew if Marty Markowitz would say no to the Coney Island rezoning, it could never get past that cause he was too associated with Coney Island. So during our hearing at Borough Hall, uh, people came to Borough Gall in Coney Island fashion. It looked like the mermaid parade in Borough Hall. I mean it was a spectacle, but I think we did the right thing. So it was a great time in Brooklyn. I learned a lot and then went to the chamber and said, how do we, now we've created all of this. How do we make sure that businesses flourish and that there is a business scene in Brooklyn that rivals anywhere in the world. Then we spent five years there doing the same thing.
Ofer Cohen:
Why in that moment? Why not sort of stay in politics or local politics?
Carlo Scissura:
Well, you know, I had planned to run for borough president. I had raised the most money. Everything was on my side and then I just woke up and felt that I didn't want to be in the traditional elected office role. I wanted at that moment in time to continue to be free, to speak my mind, to make change, to build relationships and help Brooklyn. And I think spending time at the chamber helped. I think the business community realized that there was an organization that could advocate for them.
Ofer Cohen:
But it as much as I think you stand and identify this sort of like one of the leaders of the new Brooklyn, the transformation over the last 10, 15 years and everything that we love about the Brooklyn today, there's a lot of things growing up in Brooklyn that I'm sure you love and miss and sort of fill a little more nostalgic now.
Carlo Scissura:
I have to tell you, when we were doing the whole, all of this work in Brooklyn, in most meetings I would be in, I was the only one who actually was from Brooklyn. Most people had come here 10 years ago, five years ago, eight years ago, whatever it was. I was like a Relic, a throwback. I'm like, I'm not, I'm 40 years old and I'm considered a dinosaur in this room. Um, so yes. Are there things I miss about the Brooklyn I grew up in? Of course we all have a nostalgic moment in us, but I'm also to the point and pragmatic to understand that nothing stays the same. And in order for all of us to grow, things have to change. Um, you know, we once rode to Manhattan on a horse and buggy. Now we ride in an Uber. Yesterday I took my daughter trick or treating in Bay Ridge. So I grew up in Bensonhurst and, I can honestly say of my high school graduating class. I would imagine 70% of the guys, cause it was an all boys school do not live in Brooklyn anymore. They live in New Jersey, in Westchester or somewhere else. But yesterday trick or treating in Bay Ridge reminded me of my childhood. There were a lot of kids out, there were homes, there were decorations, there was music, the stores were open. And I said, you know what, the people may be different where they came from may look different, but it's still the same. It's still people who love their neighborhood, who want great communities, great schools, and you make new friends and you meet new people and you never forget about the people you knew. I mean, look, Ofer you came from somewhere else, right? My parents came from somewhere else. You look back and you have great memories, but you say you want people to come to Brooklyn. You know, people leave. And that's the reality. There are people that leave Brooklyn, leave New York, leave other places in the world to do something else. When people say to me, I'm leaving New York, okay, bye. Because when you leave, there are two people who want to replace you here and that says something about New York City and the vibrancy we are. I think for me, if I didn't have Villabate bakery or I didn't have Faicco's Pork store or ALC or the Italian places that I love that are here and thriving makes me very happy because my traditional old Brooklyn is still in Bay Ridge and Bensonhurst and Dyker Heights, but I'm excited that now I have a Barclays arena to go to to watch a nets game or my daughter could go see Disney or I've got Brooklyn Bridge Park, which is incredible, who I've got industry city eight minutes from my house in Bay Ridge in this mega incredible place. So what I trade all these new things to go back to Bensonhurst in 1975 1980 absolutely not.
Ofer Cohen:
I would think that this is a definitely a national trend. The more people want to be in cities, live in cities, cities, lifestyle becoming a lot more attractive and there's a lot more opportunities. And so there's a kind of a more migration into cities and more people stay in the cities. And so what we need to talk about is why are we giving such a hard time as a city to someone like Amazon? Why do we give such a hard time to a project like Industry City?
Carlo Scissura:
So it's interesting. We happen to be living in an era where New York city is safe. Uh, it's relatively cleaned. We've never had more tourism. We've never had more population. I mean, all the virtues of New York city. We forget that 25 years ago, this was not New York City. There were 2,500 or 2,400 murders a year. People were fleeing, our tax base was down, et cetera. So people forget that it wasn't too long ago that companies like an Amazon or Facebook or whatever it was, whatever the Facebook of that era was, would not want to come to New York. Today we're lucky. So when you have no problems or when you have a perception of no problems, you go after things. So what are we going after? Not you and I, but what are some people in New York going after? Big business people that make money. Um, the tax base of New York. And I think once you erode, if it should happen, that tax base, it's no longer, well, if I don't like New York, I'm going to go to Jersey, but I'll still have New York something now. It's, I could be in Florida, I could be in Texas, I can be in North Carolina. My business could thrive anywhere in America now because there are now good cultural attractions in other places. They may not be New York, but there are good museums outside of New York. There are very good restaurants outside of New York. Young people could have maybe an easier quality of life. I won't say better, but easier spending less of their income on rent and other things. So we're in a moment in New York where we should not only not be hurting business, we should actually be doing everything we can to help business to help grow business. Because while it's wonderful for, and I've said this many times, the Facebooks of the world that want and Google and others that want to grow here, and I say, bring them on and we should welcome them. We should also realize that there are some businesses, particularly smaller mid size that could be elsewhere that don't need to be here. And those are the ones we want to convince and help them to stay here. I think we have to all together fight because you don't want to see businesses leave New York. You want more jobs created in New York. I mean, my position is you should be creating jobs in East New York.
Ofer Cohen:
So why is a project like Industry City getting such a hard time? Because it's, it's one of the most amazing...
Carlo Scissura:
It's an amazing place. The amount of jobs that they've created. There are people from all over New York, including the community that go to Industry City. People fear, they fear the unknown. The four letter word today is gentrification. They don't want to see change, and that's human nature. None of us like change. You know, you talked about my growing up, how it's different. Of course it's changed, but I like it. It's good change is good change is important. Um, you know, I tell people if I was afraid of change, I would be sitting on 13th Avenue in Dyker Heights doing real estate closings everyday, right. Would have been fine. My life would've been fine, I'd be making money, I'd probably have less stress. But I changed and we all evolve. And I thin, there are constituencies in New York that worry about change and get scared of it. And it's our job as leaders in business, community, real estate, community, civic communities to educate and say, change is okay because change will benefit you. It will bring resources, it will open jobs, it will create opportunities. And that's really what we want. Opportunities for everyone at every level of the social spectrum. We want opportunity. That's the bottom line.
Ofer Cohen:
So you know, related to that, you know, your organization is, essentially the membership is people in the real estate and construction industry, right? Being in the real estate and construction industry today in New York, you know, you go to a cocktail party and you have to kind of downplay it a little bit because you're surrounded by people that think that real estate interests are what?
Carlo Scissura:
So it's interesting, we just put out our two year report. So we do a report every year that looks two years ahead and talks about what the construction real estate industry will look like. It is one of the fastest growing creators of jobs in the city. There are hundreds of thousands of people employed because of this industry. 60% or 61% of the people employed in construction, in good middle-class jobs with health care, et cetera. Do not look like you and I. That's a very good thing. 60%. Our people, our members, people you represent, people I represent are building schools, affordable housing, parks, hospitals, universities. They're building the extension of the second Avenue subway. They're building, by the way, bike lanes. I mean, people forget, you know, you know who builds bike lanes, people in construction, you know, who builds the restaurants you like to go to architects and construction, you know, who builds the schools. You want your kids to go to construction, you know, who builds affordable housing, affordable housing developers and real estate. I mean, let's, let's not take an entire group of people and say we are the enemy when we are employing hundreds of thousands of jobs and we're building the infrastructure that people in New York rely on. I think that's important.
Ofer Cohen:
So let's talk, you know, a few months ago that I thought it was a really good pick for having you, chair of the committee for the reconstruction of the BQE. And so tell me about that process.
Carlo Scissura:
So the mayor appointed a commission to look at, putting out some options about rebuilding the BQE from Atlantic Avenue to Sand street a little bit North of then.
Ofer Cohen:
Why does it need to be rebuilt?
Carlo Scissura:
Well, I mean, the thing is going to crumble one day. It's, it's old. It's a triple cantilever by the way, an engineering Marvel at the time it was built that whose days have long gone.
Ofer Cohen:
And for those of us that don't know, this was..
Carlo Scissura:
Robert Moses, runs along Brooklyn Heights promenade in Downtown Brooklyn.
Ofer Cohen:
At a time where the idea was to connect Brooklyn, correct. And Queens and subsequently the suburbs.
Carlo Scissura:
Correct. So the city DOT, which put a lot of time and effort in and created a proposal that would run a temporary highway along the Brooklyn Heights promenade, obviously that was met with fierce resistance. And the mayor in his wisdom, I think said, we got to look at other options. So let's put together this incredible panel. I'm honored to chair it. And we've spent, you know, the last six months really understanding the project, hearing from experts, talking to people, meeting with community leaders, elected officials, and sort of going the going instead of just saying, this is a nice rendering. I mean they're all great, but so I think, you know, it's interesting when I started this process, in my mind we were going to end the process with a beautiful rendering of what should be built. And I think that's not going to happen. I think what we're going to end the process with is a lot of questions and the questions will be simple. What do we want out of roads? You know, what, what is our expectation of the future of traffic? How do we want to help the community surrounding this? We know we still need to move people. We still need a truck route, but should we be making investments in big highways anymore? Or should we invest in a smaller highway but do other things such as should there be, If you live in Staten Island and work in downtown Brooklyn, shouldn't you have a ferry from Staten Island to Downtown Brooklyn? Sounds very easy and simple and that would eliminate a lot of cars. In my mind there are three parts to the puzzle or three pieces of the puzzle. One is what can the city be doing now in January, 2020 to help this? Should we should be reducing traffic. We should be, again, the things I've said, we could do that right now, we don't have to wait for a road. The second question is what can we do to fix or extend the life period of the BQE without having to destroy people's lives for 20 years? So are there fixes? Is there a replacement, a restructuring that can happen that can reduce traffic continued in the form of a short term patch? When I say short term, remember it's New York city construction. So short term means 20-30 years. I mean because it's got to take you a long time to do something. And then I think one of the thing that excites all of us is a long term vision. And I think that the long term vision should be Verazzano Bridge to the Triborough bridge. It should be looking at the entire corridor, so I think we're going to look at hopefully that there will be a group of people that come together from the state, the city, the federal government, the MTA, the port authority to really focus on the long term fix of the BQE. It is not a road that is for tomorrow I think to to just do a fix of a small stretch doesn't solve the corridor and again, I repeat, when I say the corridor, it means the whole BQE from the minute you get off the Verrazano bridge in Brooklyn to the minute you get on the Triborough bridge in Queens, and I think that it is critical that we invest in a long term planning process and bring in all the effected communities to look at what makes sense. Maybe a tunnel does make sense. Maybe it's time to say we need to build a grand big dig in Brooklyn and Queens that will say we're, we're eliminating highways from Brooklyn and Queens. We're going to have tunnels. We're going to have entrances and exits and high-speed.
Ofer Cohen:
Everywhere else you go in the world, they decided to do these big tunnels and then they get them done in 24 months and it's done right.
Carlo Scissura:
But we won't get it done in 24 months, which is why, by the way, it would not be advisable of this committee to say just build a tunnel and get it done. Because in New York it takes decades. So to really do this whole corridor, it's a 30 to 40 year timeline. The current triple cantilever cannot wait 30 to 40 years. So, which is why we say you got to do something now short term. Yes. But while you're doing that, let's plan for the vision of the future. And I think that's what makes the most.
Ofer Cohen:
Well, we're still young.
Carlo Scissura:
We're young, we'll drive it. Not for long. We're in our forties I at least me one more year before my end.
Ofer Cohen:
Right behind your brother. When are you guys going to release the report?
Carlo Scissura:
We'll have a report out in the next couple of weeks and I'll give you a hint though. There will not be a highway at the promenade, which I think if that's all I said, people would be happy and I could go home. But we wanted to really think a little deeper and a little more logical.
Ofer Cohen:
Great. This is, I mean, that's amazing. So I typically ask, uh, at the end of these shows, if there's something about, Carlo that the public doesn't know?
Carlo Scissura:
I think, my most cool story is I have a four and a half year old, who thinks she's 18, but she really is only for the half, who I had through a surrogate as a single parent, I decided one day I want them to have a child. And anyone who knows me knows that when I decide I want something, I generally get it. So I went after it, found an amazing surrogate. And in 2015, my daughter was born and I always say, Ofer Cohen saved my life. Because when I said to him in my office at the chamber, Hey, by the way, I think I had told the executive committee and then you came in my office and was all excited and Ofer you asked me a very simple question, which was, well what are you going to do when you come home with this two or three day old child? And I said, I don't know, I guess I'm going to get a nanny and somebody will help me. And you were like, no, you need what's called the baby nurse cause you have no idea what you're doing and I have the perfect person for you and she's going to call you today because I'm going to call her. And thus was born, not just my child, but the baby nurse who was supposed to stay two weeks, who stayed two and a half years, by the way, make sure you call her, cause you haven't called. She was with me for two and a half years and I figured out a lot of things with her, including how to change diapers so that she don't need to know anymore. You really don't. It's like, it's a very temporary, it's temporary, but anyway, it's fun. It's exciting. It's challenging. But, you know, I tell people we're lucku, you know, I get to run an organization that has a daily impact on the lives of New Yorkers. And then I get to go home to Bay Ridge Brooklyn, which is like living in the suburbs and you get to have the best of both worlds in New York City. Why would you want anything else?
Ofer Cohen:
Carlos Scissura, living the the Brooklyn Dream.
Carlo Scissura:
Absolutely. Thank you Ofer